Leaving for good. (archived by NightFall)

[Thrasher]

I didn't do that so it would be ignored

[PunnnnnnK]

I almost completely agree with you. I mean, everything you say, it's true. I understand your situation. I agree that words have a very strong meaning to people. But the thing an open community (such as TWC) is not supposed to know anything about, are private conversations between people.

As far as i know that was posted in a Group chat. A group chat is not a private conversation between 2-3 people. And obviously some people in that group chat found that conversation highly offensive.
Also it was/is a group which consists of mainly (only?) twc members and thus everything written there is (or can be) of concern for the clan - in my opinion at least.

So if someone really feels the need to slander someone, he should make sure the conversation is actually private and not a group chat.

[Enigma]

I almost completely agree with you. I mean, everything you say, it's true. I understand your situation. I agree that words have a very strong meaning to people. But the thing an open community (such as TWC) is not supposed to know anything about, are private conversations between people.

As far as i know that was posted in a Group chat. A group chat is not a private conversation between 2-3 people. And obviously some people in that group chat found that conversation highly offensive.
Also it was/is a group which consists of mainly (only?) twc members and thus everything written there is (or can be) of concern for the clan - in my opinion at least.

So if someone really feels the need to slander someone, he should make sure the conversation is actually private and not a group chat.

Or even better; Don't slander anyone

[Snowman]

I almost completely agree with you. I mean, everything you say, it's true. I understand your situation. I agree that words have a very strong meaning to people. But the thing an open community (such as TWC) is not supposed to know anything about, are private conversations between people.

As far as i know that was posted in a Group chat. A group chat is not a private conversation between 2-3 people. And obviously some people in that group chat found that conversation highly offensive.
Also it was/is a group which consists of mainly (only?) twc members and thus everything written there is (or can be) of concern for the clan - in my opinion at least.

So if someone really feels the need to slander someone, he should make sure the conversation is actually private and not a group chat.

Well said, +1

[Mimus]

We do not support what happened in that Whatsapp chat.
We, as clanleaders aswell as "just people", highly condemn that kind of behaviour.

Fact though stays, we will not punish people for what they do in private surroundings.
We already explained it in the teamspeak conversation, but i will aswell explain it in short here again, and invite everyone who still has questions or concerns to our soon-to-be regular ts chat on weekends (which will start this weekend, final date and time has yet to be decided).

The decision not to get involved with private chats has two main reasons.
1. Where do we set the boundaries? This time it is whatsapp, what is to come next? Exaggeratedly said, hack peoples facebook? Record real-life talks? Install cameras in their schoolyard?
2. We have no control. If we see screenshots or demos from ET, we can check our logs if it really happened. Same for forum etc. But whatsapp screenshots? Facebook screenshots? I can whip you up a screenshot of you telling me on whatsapp that "obama is a bad person", or whatever else. Takes me 5 minutes with photoshop. And who can verify if you really said it or not?

Let me underline again, we do not want to say we do not believe the screenshots cross posted, nor do we like what we saw.Still, we do not want to see private chats being poisted in public, and we will not give out punishments based on private conversations, ever. Not this time and not in the future.

[Cross]

We do not support what happened in that Whatsapp chat.
We, as clanleaders aswell as "just people", highly condemn that kind of behaviour.

And this is where you should have ended your post, as I do not care about you punishing or not, I am not a member of TWC and, thanks to everything that happend this weekend, won't ever be. You can do what you want. Oh, and I did what I did with screen, only bcs of what YOU said to me, that you won't do a thing, so I had to do something myself, since you wouldn't lift a finger. (and I would do it again under the same circumstances)

Anyway I had to go off topic bcs of Mimus, but right on track, I wish you wouldn't have posted that, since it seems as if you ignored completly what I have written, and the message behind it.

PS: Write my nick-name starting from big letter if you could, thanks.

PS2: Since my msg could be lost in this everything, I will copy it in here hoping everyone posting after me would focus on the message, not the situation that happend.

Nope, it was not heat of the moment, I would do the same thing again, and I will if this ever happens again I will do it yet again. You know what, dear MSTs, being objective is GREAT, but you have to understand that TWC would be in so much better position if you sometimes STOPPED being objective and be simply... humane.

But this post is not for you, dear Megain and Slasher. Yeah, I am saying this in public on purpose, so this could be a lesson for ALL of you, why you CAN'T say such things to ANYONE but ESPECIALLY to depressed people, to people that are on verge of trying to commit suicide, again. And I will treat all of you like a teacher talking to students, like a parent is talking to a kid, so you would LEARN IT, not READ IT AND IGNORE IT. So you could actually say, with TRUE feelings, that you were wrong. Then, and only then, I will be able to EVER forgive you.

People have feelings dear guys, and you have to understand that you have to respect people, no matter who they are. This is the most basic thing, treat others like a fellow human, a creature with own feelings, dreams and opinions. Words hurt, no matter what people that you insult say, words are more painful than punches. Words stay with you, and the most gentle of us, the most sensitive of us can't simply forget about it. I am such a person, I already tried to kill myself, mainly bcs of other people words.
You have to understand that chats, privates conversations are not as safe as you think, and other people might be disgusted of what you are saying and might tell about it the person you were insulting.
Such was the case yesterday, and you have to understand that I will never, ever forget about that, you have to understand just how much it hurted me and how hard it influenced me. Simple sorry from you two wont be enough, you have to promise me, that you will simply be careful, mindful of other people feelings, and that you will never, ever joke about such thing again (unless you are with the closest friends)

Treat others how you want to be treated, that is the golden rule.

Thank you, Cross.

[Antho]

Hi Cross,

You and I aren't acquainted, I think. I didn't closely follow the recent events as I left the clan after a long period of being a supreme, nearly 2 years ago. I still lurk on this forum though, and read the post you referenced with your story quite a while back.

In my opinion, the core pillars of an internet community should be to offer support, understanding, and a sense of belonging to its members. People joining a clan have differing motives, some search a safe space, some just really enjoy the game, others like social aspects. In the end, the motivation to join a clan shouldn't matter, as long as the clan is able to offer a positive atmosphere. My reasoning behind this is that trolls will feel naturally appalled, eventually, by a strong force of positivity. You can see this on reddit, for example, where the trolls gather at subreddits created for them, because the more serious subreddits have strong moderation and exhibit their desire to be a positive force on the internet.

Back then, reading the post with your story filled me with joy. I felt proud, proud because the clan I left months ago was still going strong, being able to offer you something which you desperately needed at the time. Now, as I finished reading through this topic, I feel disappointed. Mainly with those forgetting that they are talking to real people on the internet. But I'm also disappointed because the clan failed to provide you a safe space.

Since you're leaving this clan, I'd like urge it upon you that, even if some people have let you down here, it doesn't mean you won't be able to find a listening ear again, be it here or elsewhere on the internet. Having said all this, please do know that if you ever need someone to talk to, you're free to hit me up with a PM.

Regards,
Antho

[Ligustah]

It's probably not going to change any of your views, but I'd like you to know that you - Cross - in particular profited from our reluctance to deviate from the rules we set ourselves in the past, albeit indirectly. There were several cases in the past where I personally (or other high ranking members) would have removed people from the clan for things that I (or they) considered inappropriate, where the humane decision (according to what I think is your opinion) would have excluded people from the community, of which some were among your closest friends. At least if I recall your post correctly. Some more than once. We chose to abide by our standards and apply the same rules, even if we personally would have preferred to kick those people in that moment.

Now please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying any of that to discredit anyone. Most of the people I'm thinking about have proven to be able to adjust their behavior and to become valuable members of the community, few had to be removed eventually. My point is that objectivity goes both ways and I think everybody should be judged by the same standards, that everybody is entitled to be given the same chances. Who am I to take that away from anyone?

Just like you would follow your way again, we stand by our decision.
If you feel like discussing any of this in future, I'd invite you to either catch us on Steam or on TeamSpeak. If you want to, I can also lock this thread for you.

Farewell

[Makez]

Hey Cross, I've now been following this topic for a few days without commenting on it. This post is just going to be based on my personal opinion, NOT the absolute truth. I have kind of mixed feelings about the whatsapp discussion where Meagain and Slasher said something that probably should have not been said. From your side I totally understand the struggle you have been going through in real life and then this discussion gets revealed. It must have felt horrible reading from that screenshot and it must have had an effect on mental health of yours.

Personally I've learned that you should never take ANYTHING too seriously that you see via internet. Even though the guys that talked behind your back have been in this same "family" for a long time with you, they still are people that live thousands of kilometers away from you and should not really have proper effect with your real life happenings. It's good to have some kind of filter in your mind when you read/hear text in the internet. If someone in the internet says "go kill yourself", then you should be able to just ignore that guy and laugh about it. Of course it must be difficult to do that IF you actually have malicious thoughts about yourself.

As far as I have learned during my short 20 year life, some people get along with others, some people don't. Our "family" has always had people from different cultures around the world that have completely different views. I don't personally feel offended if someone in internet tells me that "I should go kill myself", but most people probably would. Back in the day when Snacky released your story, many people that I know including myself thought about it in a manner of attention seeking. I still believe that story should've not been published and just kept between you and your best TWC buddies behind closed doors. That kind of story is what the "trolls" feed on and make jokes about.

As I said earlier, this is MY personal opinion on this matter. I didn't mean to offend ANYONE with this post.

-Makez

[Enigma]

Hey Cross, I've now been following this topic for a few days without commenting on it. This post is just going to be based on my personal opinion, NOT the absolute truth. I have kind of mixed feelings about the whatsapp discussion where Meagain and Slasher said something that probably should have not been said. From your side I totally understand the struggle you have been going through in real life and then this discussion gets revealed. It must have felt horrible reading from that screenshot and it must have had an effect on mental health of yours.

Personally I've learned that you should never take ANYTHING too seriously that you see via internet. Even though the guys that talked behind your back have been in this same "family" for a long time with you, they still are people that live thousands of kilometers away from you and should not really have proper effect with your real life happenings. It's good to have some kind of filter in your mind when you read/hear text in the internet. If someone in the internet says "go kill yourself", then you should be able to just ignore that guy and laugh about it. Of course it must be difficult to do that IF you actually have malicious thoughts about yourself.

As far as I have learned during my short 20 year life, some people get along with others, some people don't. Our "family" has always had people from different cultures around the world that have completely different views. I don't personally feel offended if someone in internet tells me that "I should go kill myself", but most people probably would. Back in the day when Snacky released your story, many people that I know including myself thought about it in a manner of attention seeking. I still believe that story should've not been published and just kept between you and your best TWC buddies behind closed doors. That kind of story is what the "trolls" feed on and make jokes about.

As I said earlier, this is MY personal opinion on this matter. I didn't mean to offend ANYONE with this post.

-Makez

People are different, and some people are actually not able to shrug stuff like that off just like that. It's good on you if you can, but some actually mentally can't, which isn't their fault, it just happens to be that way.

Which means it's not as easy as you say here, sometimes what happens is you have people around who don't seem to grasp that stuff together with a louder voice than the ones who CAN.