HS + BG Merge (Important) (archived by NightFall)

[Hani]

After finishing my exams and stuff, Ive heard people were discussing alot about the Idea which was made by our bg member.. shockwave to Merge(combine) HS & BG as one server and therefore ive set-up this thread along with a poll to get the accurate results to make sure whether the idea of this merging is acceptable or not.

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Perhaps everyone of you were waiting for my suggestion about this idea(if i am right) and to me its ok, i am neither Against the idea Nor with the idea.. i just want only want to see the results & people's opinion on this,

On the other hand, i want to make you people understand the situation of this Before or after server merging whether it has possibilites, advantages, disadvantages, problems etc.. so i will be giving my own points and decision below..

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1)Activity

One thing i just misunderstood was HS server is about to die and BG so we should start merging to get them back extremly active, well.. HS Ofc started to go low on its activity when i started to become inactive i mean, i wasnt there to make changes and prepare the member's meeting schedule day by day to gather members and "HALF" of my high admins or members started playing on other twc servers or have busy life etc(cant complain, playing with bots is not fun), HS is more affective in its status.. and why i meant affective is that If i dont put my step on HS, nothing is going to happen.. simply it will slowly starts to get abandoned but now if i put my step on it and massively do something to get its activity back then for sure it will happen,
So from this point you can actually make a server back active if you're only active alongside with your members and by doing something to bring its activity, I dont know about BG but this is a true statement related to HS.. rather than being inactive or leaving the server dead and go for an immediate change by mixing the server to make it active back again, Just telling what's really possible before merging..

2)Lack Of Downloading
I know most of you are having big problems with big downloads, About this point, i dont know how it will go but i'd consider HS has Soundpack/Greeting Soundpack/30 Seconds Soundpack and to be honest, The sounds(greeting sounds etc) are imported within high admins and the supremes as well, most of the people really loves the HS Soundpack(yeh spamming them too much afaik xd) especially HS Members and others, Mixing HS Sounds & BG's one would be too much download and surely cropping it or removing some sounds isnt going to be acceptable at all, and what i meant by unacceptable is that we got ppl who has their own gaudio's setup and fav soundtracks etc,

3)Loss of Members/HA

As i see that half of our HS Members/HA's and maybe BG's(i really dont know who but i saw djuki's opinion) are not ok with the following idea and some of them especially kenny and coffee(one of our greatest TWC Members/HA) are deciding to leave or transfer if the changes occur and on the otherside idk if people who usually visit our server will more likely get used to this change because all they want is to play on HS server w/ Jaymod ofc, (i.e cross)

4)Accurate Hitboxes
Yes, people would no longer complain to see HS Only activated in nitmod with accurate hitboxes,

5)Time Planning
At this particular point, i am worried that who really is going to change the server's mod style in an accurate timing, i mean like 3 days HS and 3 days campaign obj, its kinda quite difficult imo to take care of this but if its the supremes, high admins whos going to take control of it(not sure yet), i am afraid if sudden inactivity comes, or someone is lazy to do it and no one does the job.. its of no use.. and therefore we arent too skilled enough to make a timer that automatically sets up the server's mod style by itself.

6)HeadShot & Campaign
This is the point where the main problem comes from.. Most of the people doesnt feel comfortable playing Headshot on campaign maps, as far as ive heard that its going to be 3 Days HS Only and 3 Days Standard Campaign. what i would like to say is that 50% of the people loves HS Only and 50% doesnt like it, thats the reason why we balanced HS only and HS Normal on weekends etc.. so not sure if HS Normal would count or would be there on the mixed server.. and importing different maps for different style with result in very tough work too..

[ As i said I am not against the idea or with the idea and this is the Points ive mentioned which might HAPPEN or will NOT HAPPEN, or will cause PROBLEMS ETC.. who knows this is just an idea so far.. Thinking before doing something is the only way of success,doing an immediate change without thinking at first is completely failure ]


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Now i would love to see the results and people's opinion which i do really care in the first place.

The Poll is Public, except for the unknown people(that never visited TWC servers)

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One more last thing, If i see any drama again here or a useless post that doesnt relate with this thread, I will surely delete that post immediately, So please dont even be/act offensive towards other ppl's opinion and no fuss. ty

EDIT: I had headache when posting this.. so idk if my english is understandable or not i hope.

[Sky]

First of all someone should set up a HS server with nitmod to check if it's actually fun to play.
I personally cannot decide if the merge is a good idea until I see at least a test server with the basic settings.
If the hitboxes are as shitty in that new server as they are right now in BG you won't see me playing there a lot :/ ...

About the downloading thing I never understood why it was needed for a server to have a 35mb soundpack while in fact most days only 10% of the soundpack is used from what I saw.
Reducing the download sizes or at least the amount of files to download, would greatly help this new server imo.

Another important point imo, is that if this merge has consequences regarding loss of members, it's not even worth trying it.
Even though I must say leaving immediately without giving it a chance would be really "overreactive" (does that word even exist lol)

About the problem around campaign maps and headshot mod, why wouldn't you just make a map-cycle which contains a bunch of objective custom maps (from the BG maplist) who will be played with normal settings (like in BG)
And then you add a bunch of frag-oriented maps (from the HS maplist) who will be played with HS settings (HS only or HS+body doesn't matter)
With a mapscript I think you can easily configure which settings will be associated to which maps, and maybe it's a bit more work but once it's done it's done.
This is my personal view of how the server could be like, I'm not forcing it or anything of course.

[Vegehan]

As nd player I like to play other active servers. Like pw. Sometimes I connect to bg or hs but its all bots. I would like to play obj or frag on a active server besides nd. Not sayin that those should merge without doubt . But I would say it would be worth the try. If it would even be slightly more active it would attract players from nd like myself.
Side note. Its good to see you're back Hani

[Mimus]

About the time planning issue which also shockwave asked me about when I first told him that it is probably a big problem/issue in the server merge:

Lig and I looked into the ways to switch from HS to BG and back.

In case HS stays Jaymod and BG stays Nitmod you can only have 2 ways to switch from BG/HS.
Either you have to be super-admin in our admin panel (so basically you will always have to come to us MSTs and tell us to switch, since only we can switch mods)
OR
We make it possible for the supremes to switch, but then we have to have 2 servers which are being stopped and started all over. That also means 2 different IPs to connect to.

If however both (HS and BG) go to nitmod, it is possible to have 1 server with both HS and BG on it and having the supremes change it. There would be 2 nitmod-folders, the active one always named as usual, and the inactive one something like nitmod_disabled.
BUT, having 2 nitmod folders means exactly that: 2 different databases. That includes XP, lvl and admincommands, bans etc.. So when someone becomes admin, he has to be set on both databases. If a member from ND connects and needs lvl 4 -> you have to change both databases. Bans will only be made in the at that time active one aswell. Levelsystems, if changed, have to be changed in both. Useredit-commands too. If someone connets to HS-merge on one day and then to BG-merge the other he will have different XP. All that and more.

So, summed up:
1. MSTs change stuff when using nitmod+jaymod
2. two different servers when using nitmod+jaymod
3. one server, but still different databases when using nitmod+nitmod

[$ubzero]

like seen in other posts about this topic, I am positive about this merge.
But I agree with all the minor points you brought up.

Bit to tired to sum up all my points of my previous points ( might edit this post later )

But I the most important thing why I think it would be good is that we would get a bigger memberbase and regular base by combining the server. But indeed loosing members isn't the way to go. (btw by my understanding coffee wouldn't leave, or at least give it a chance).

Also I don't really see the problem of downloading either, I mean I don't think Bg has custom soundpack so we could just replace it with hs's and add greeting sounds for their members, wouldn't be that much extra bytes right?

If this continue's it needs a hell lot of planning and workload divided over people cuz I agree that we shouldn't like put all the work on Hani's shoulders or any one else's.

[Paul]

I agree with the idea ofc, no extra explenation needed from my side.

[Coffee]

On what idea? Theres three options. and yes Sub, I would still be in and give it a try. Just as a member i think :3 but id be there.

[yourdog]

U dont need 2 databases or folders
everything can be loaded from one main u only need 2 cfg
1. Objectivecycle.cfg (we already have in bg)
2. HS.cfg
in these 2 cfg u can adjust the settings of the server
so u don't need 2 databases copying admin, bans etc etc

Why u want 2 nitmod folders? -_-
Indeed then u have 2 databases.
But if u only work with a cfg then u only have 1.database

[kurd'ich]

Good idea...


WUT??

No. 50.00% 6 50.00%

[The Master]

good point there sky i tottaly agree that things should be tested first etc.
also i think it would be good to make a vote inside headshot only, same for bg.
because if like 50 procent is against it, in the end you still gone have the same member base because poeple will transfer/go inactive/leave if they dont like it.
and this vote can be for axample from all poeple from other servers and pass while most hs members vote no.

ofc i like this idea however i am not gone vote on this because i can simpely not say how manny hs/bg members want this.
and how hs will do on nitmod.
and i think that it would be good to investegate some more before voteing on somthing i dont know how it is gone go.
and ofc you never know that but i think with some polls and stuff you can predict it better,
after all this is not a small thing to vote for