fair teams (archived by Tomahawk)

[$4m4el]

I prepared another rule concerning team balance, which, in my opinion should be implemented.

First, I think that when we talk about unbalanced teams I mean +3 players (e.g. 8 Axis vs. 11 Allies.)
When Ocean used to be supreme he told me that +2 is ok, +3 you need to change your team.

Sometimes there are too few clan members to even the teams. I asked guest players to change teams lots of times, unfortunately without any effect. Using !put command in such situations may be misunderstood by the person transferred, that’s why I usually waited till the end of the map and later shuffled teams.

That’s why I suggest than in the situation when teams are uneven and we say "teams", after 30 sec (if nobody changes teams) we move a player (guest) with the most xp points at that moment.(of course, before we put visitors twc members must swap first.)

Comments welcome, not only from nd members.

[Moanraker]

There's always that script we used a while ago. It would automatically put players to the correct team to balance teams. There were complaints about all the mines getting removed. I'm not sure if it was for Jaymod either by the way.

[djuki]

I do this often. !put team, we no one response after 20 sec. I often play late when the sever is rather empty. so when teams are 4 vs 7 I act be4 the map changes. I dont care about XP. It's situated on on how the teams are balanced.So Low skilled player when its just a number issue. or high skilled player when teams are really unfair.
I usually talk to a player after I !putt him and explain my reasons. It helps often

So, yea, I favor this new rule

[led]

But what do to when the teams look to be fair, but just aren't?
Yesterday, playing radar, axis had a score of 2000 while allies had 1000...
I wouldn't call those teams fair
So, if there's a right thing to do here, what is it? Vote shuffle?

[$4m4el]

There's always that script we used a while ago. It would automatically put players to the correct team to balance teams. There were complaints about all the mines getting removed. I'm not sure if it was for Jaymod either by the way.

If I remember his script works only in etpub and in noquarter??

But what do to when the teams look to be fair, but just aren't?
Yesterday, playing radar, axis had a score of 2000 while allies had 1000...
I wouldn't call those teams fair
So, if there's a right thing to do here, what is it? Vote shuffle?

I concentrate more on the teams balance in relation to the number of players. If teams have the same number of players and scores are uneven imo the best solution is to vote shuffle. And remember you can't always win.

[Nirv]

Implement the following vote : Shuffle without map restart.
When a normal shuffle vote pass, like 10 minutes before the end of a map, it's so freaking annoying...

I'd rather fix the teams myself instead of moving a guest, main reason is because they might dislike and whine about it.
Unless if you have been moving like 2 or 3 times already, then yeah you may start to think about moving someone else, however you should ask them first !

@led,
First people have to change their mind, most of the players are thinking that fair teams = same amount of players in axis and allies.
But it's not always the case.
It depents on who plays on what team and stuff and if you think about it, there's not much you can do regarding this.

[Butcher]

Mates, you are also confronted by a big problem, especially on ND where mostly a high number of players are on teams. I saw quite often also on ND that teams were not balanced at all (5 vs 1, 8 vs 4....), and guests were not willing to balance teams or even to respond such requests. They do as they would not see/hear balancing requests, creating a lot of additional work for admins to beg further and/or put players to the weaker team.
I studied a lot this issue in the recent months and found the following.

1. Firstly a forced teambalance (cvar setting) should be applied that allows a spectator to join a team with less or the same player number as the other team.
- this issue is heavily disturbed, i.e. actually disabled by bots when there are bots in-game. When the setting bots balance teams (omnibot CFG) is activated then bots immediately fill up spaces in weaker team without considering human player number - so inbalance stays, when the bot balance is not activated, then the trouble is still bigger.
- good news: this is a problem only until bots are in-game, and on ND this is rare case.

2. Re-balancing teams (after map start when players left, or during map): there is the tool XP autobalance working on team XP and score. It calculates winning/losing chances and continuously controls teambalance by putting relative "stronger" players to the weaker team (the team witjh lower calculated winning chances). Consequently it allows different player numbers on teams (like 5-3, 7-4....). It overrides forced teambalance setting!!! A time limit can be set until it is allowed to operate after map start.
Note: this works on Etpub/Nam mod, I only suppose it follows the same logic in Jaymod. But:
- I think this should be disabled as is does rather confuse and annoy players, moreover it is very cpmlicated to follow (the calculation method).

3. Summarising the above: I woul think that the most simple and safe method to keep teams balanced is to apply forced teambalance that allows a new player to join a team with less or the same player number as the other team. What should be changed is then the weak/strong players, but this might be done by a voting about 'Shuffle without restar' or discussion.
Still the hard balance in player number should be kept and re-created by automatic sever action, as players (mostly guests) are far not willing to go on their own.
In etpub/Nam mod an automatic teambalance works after a preset time, I suppose it does the same in Jaymod.
So I would recommend to apply it strictly for hard re-balancing, after e.g. 30 seconds an inbalance occurred. Upon inbalance a message might be activated indicating that teams are uneven and automatic inbalance is due in ... seconds. (I am not sure if this message is fully or partly possible in jaymod.)

[Antho]

Forced team balance is currently enabled, shuffle after every map is possible but kinda sucks and is confusing/annoying, the shuffle without restart vote doesn't exist in jaymod, the autocorrect script indeed is non-existant for jaymod, I've never heard of the teambalance calculator working for jaymod...

[Blood Berserker]

well its just a matter of going in other team if the teams are unfair

- first nd members switch
- second twc members
- third is to put geust based on amount or skill

We have a huge skill diffrence between the players just a matter of good view who plays against each other